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08-25-2008, 11:31 PM
LC1234546 Wrote:I also agree that there is an audience out there for the gothic novel. I just finished writing one and its making the rounds, looking for an agent. I would like to see more of them out there. Does anyone have any suggestions that we can bring to the publishers that would bring them back?
Linda
Linda C.
I am so pleased to see so many readers crying out for these classic Gothics! When I could no longer find them back in '92 I was saddened by their disappearance. Then I thought hang it all. If I can't find them, I will write them. I am working on my second Gothic novel set in what else? A dark eerie castle in 1850!
I too, wish publishers would pull their collective heads out of the sand and listen to the public about what they really want to read. It's all about the dollar!
Does anyone else here feel like the silent minority? I agree that the times they are a changing and not for the betterment of our young readers. I think it is sad that these publishers believe that sex is the only thing that sells. I say a good read that holds your attention for 200-300 pages is what sells me on a book. Give me a dark castle and and a mystery to solve, and a new love to find....
So, I'm right with you Linda, lets get on the ball and get these fabulous stories coming back! And soon!
I'm going back to writing my final chapter of my novel 'Veil of Secrets' so I can get it finished so I can get it 'Out there!'
Best Wishes,
Linda A.
Gothically yours in romantic suspense!
Visit my website:
www.freewebs.com/gothicqueen1213
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It could very well be that gothic romances are being written and submitted to publishers, but the quality of the writing does not meet publication standards. Book publishing (and marketing) has changed considerably over the past 30 years. The majority of the gothics from the golden era were cliched and hackneyed. Stewart, Holt, Michaels et al continually see reprints precisely because their writing is strong enough to transcend the trend of a given era. I checked my local Brentanos recently and there are three Barbara Michaels titles on the shelf in fiction. Maybe another reason they continue to be reprinted is that there is nothing strong enough in the publisher's sludge piles to take their place. I read a discussion at Absolute Write today in which a well-published writer indicates that a) romantic suspense is NOT dead, and b) up and coming writers need to write what they love, not to write to "trend". With that said, any of our Readers who have a story in their head and have always wanted to write, what are you waiting for?
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Monique Devereaux Wrote:It could very well be that gothic romances are being written and submitted to publishers, but the quality of the writing does not meet publication standards. Book publishing (and marketing) has changed considerably over the past 30 years. The majority of the gothics from the golden era were cliched and hackneyed. Stewart, Holt, Michaels et al continually see reprints precisely because their writing is strong enough to transcend the trend of a given era. I checked my local Brentanos recently and there are three Barbara Michaels titles on the shelf in fiction. Maybe another reason they continue to be reprinted is that there is nothing strong enough in the publisher's sludge piles to take their place. I read a discussion at Absolute Write today in which a well-published writer indicates that a) romantic suspense is NOT dead, and b) up and coming writers need to write what they love, not to write to "trend". With that said, any of our Readers who have a story in their head and have always wanted to write, what are you waiting for?
That is an interesting theory. Maybe that is true. That might explain a few things. I agree that more writers who love them,write one of your own and submit it.Maybe the publishers will get the idea.
Anyway, I have written a gothic novel, a short one. I entered it into a writing competition with Dorchester Publishers, but they wanted something longer. I submitted a query to an agent and she wasn't interested. I am going to try another agent. There are some gothics being published, for instance Eve Silver's, "His Wicked Sins" We just want more of them out there. So if we need to write our own to fill up the void, we will.
Linda C.
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Monique Devereaux, I think you might be right in your comments about the quality of work being submitted to publishers. If some of the stuff that reaches print is anything to go by I hate to imagine what isn't making it.
Though, having said that, I think publishing is a bit of a lottery. You can have a good, strong, well written gothic ms (or any ms for that point) but unless it lands on the desk of the right person at the right time you're not going to see it picked up.
We'll all just have to keep flooding the industry with gothics in the hope that somebody somewhere will see their marketability.
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random capitals Wrote:If some of the stuff that reaches print is anything to go by I hate to imagine what isn't making it.
Ain't that the truth!
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Christine Feehan's Carpathians are not really my cup of tea, but she has some novels outside of the Dark series which were very good.
The reason there are no spaces is that historical romance has shrunk in the past few years, and so the few publishing spots left are being taken up by Feehan, or erotica like the Emma Holly upyr books, which I find really dull.
Sherrilyn Kenyon also tried to jump on the bandwagon, and a couple of other authors, terrible rubbish, most of it. Laurell K Hamilton's vampire stuff, modern day, has become one big example of 'sex sells', seemingly.
The thing about all of these, though, is that the supernatural element is emphasised, as opposed to the chilling terror that characterizes Ann Radcliff's novels.
Mainstream publishers just don't have the kind of budgets they used to, and are not even paying advances any more.
Royalties, if authors are lucky, are about 5% of the NET price of the book (not the cover price), so they get about 25 cents a book. So they are not able to really spend time writing a book they fear will not even sell the 1000 copy print run which is all a lot of romances are getting unless they are a top name author.
But as someone point out, the electronic publishers are willing and able to take those risks. I've read some really good ones at HerStory Books http://www.HerStoryBooks.com by Sorcha MacMurrough.
Every one of her historical romances has a mystery element to it, but it is not the modern suspense romance.
I think her Rakehell Regency series is truly Gothic-women in peril, not sure they can trust the man they fall in love with, and some hints of the supernatural, but no 'creatures.' Hot love scenes, but not over the top or gross. She also writes really well about the Napoleonic war. You really believe that her couples fall in love--it is not all growling and snarling primitivism as with the Feehan books.
I gave up on the Feehan books in the Dark series because they were gross-lots of female bodily functions, if you take my meaning. And her 'love scenes' are almost identical from book to book, over and over.
I don't know why vampire types are supposed to be so exciting, but it is a romance genre fad that has gone on way too long in my mind. Buffy the Vampire Slayer has been over for years!!
Interestingly, very little Gothic TV has endured-they canceled Night Stalker, Moonlight, Buffy and Angel. Perhaps we just live in a rationalist world, but I for one love a good mystery without it being too much of a 'whodunnit'.
Barbara Michaels' books sort of qualify-she had one really interesting one that took place in old Williamsburg and several others in posh old mansions which kept me guessing.
I joined Booksfree.com because it is awesome-you can get a great back list of your favorite authors, so that is how I found all of these. I read all of her ones under the pen name Elizabeth Peters, the Amelia Peabody ones set at the turn of this century, female egyptologist, creepy villains and tombs.
Can't think of anyone any other authors I would read cover to cover, every book, apart from Barbara Michaels, Elizabeth Peters, Sorcha MacMurrough, and the non Carpathians from Feehan.
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gurugoddess Wrote:But as someone point out, the electronic publishers are willing and able to take those risks. I've read some really good ones at HerStory Books http://www.HerStoryBooks.com by Sorcha MacMurrough.
I have a Sony E-Reader, and just today discovered Fictionwise Ebooks at http://fictionwise.com. If you use the advanced search and select the Romance category with a keyword of "gothic" you will find over 30 gothic romance titles. Use the same sort of keyword search in the mystery and suspense/thriller categories and you will find a few more. I bought almost 20 gothic e-books there today!
I was despairing of never finding any good gothics to read on my Sony PRS-505, but this was quite a windfall. Does anyone know of any other good sources of gothic e-books? (I'll start another topic for this, as posting sources here would be off-topic.)
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Awesome, perhaps we can also post reviews somewhere to help us all find some good digital Gothic novels to read!
That is another great thing about epublishers. Unlike paper publishers, the titles stay available longer, and the authors are not stuck with only 1 'slot' every year, or every six months.
So, other suggestions besides http://HerStoryBooks.com books in the historical romance and regency categories are:
http://hardshellwordfactory.com had a couple of Gothics last time I was there. Patricia White is probably their best author.
And of course Ellora's cave is really erotica but they do try to do some Gothic-type books. http://www.ellorascave.com/
Berkley Jove recently picked up a couple of their authors to publish them in paperback, but I have to say, the quality of the writing was very uneven (yes, I DO think erotica should be written well!) I will never read another Jaid Black book again.
Black Lace used to do more Gothic erotica, but last time I looked they were doing few new titles, a lot of tacky reprints and Sex in the City type books.
The first book I spotted was Gothic Heat when I just went over there, by one of their mainstay writers Portia DaCosta, and she has another called Gothic Blue. She is one of their better writers, and again, a lot of times, esp now the prices have gone up so much, I borrow my books from Booksfree.com
Black Lace was where Emma Holly started her career (and should have stayed-I hate her upyrs and the books have so much same sex content, esp amongst men, that they can't really be called romance any more, though the publishers are still trying to market them that way).
But again, these authors want more 'slots', and so they crank out 'product', not really the kind of wonderful writing that appeals to all of the 5 senses, plus the sixth sense, the way good Gothic writing (and even erotica/romantica) should.
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GothicLover Wrote:Penfeather Wrote:GothicLover Wrote:They are mainly edgy mysteries, thrillers, adventures. The few romances offered are usally filled with swear words, cell phones, traffic, stress, gays, lesbians, absurd situations, and/or weddings.
Gays and lesbians? Do we really want to go there? This is a personal topic, and throwing it into the list the way you did might be taken as inflammatory by some readers. How do you know there aren't gay or lesbian Gothic readers on this forum? No intent to inflame anyone. Just pointing out that all of the things mentioned are not elements found in traditional gothic romance novels or old-fashioned romances.
I completely disagree. Sexuality, including homosexuality, has long been an undercurrent in the Gothic Romance. Mrs. Danvers, anyone?
Early (pre-1900) Gothics were full of raw, rough portraits of sexuality. "Wuthering Heights," for instance. The best Gothic Romances have never been tame.
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I completely disagree. Sexuality, including homosexuality, has long been an undercurrent in the Gothic Romance. Mrs. Danvers, anyone?
Early (pre-1900) Gothics were full of raw, rough portraits of sexuality. "Wuthering Heights," for instance. The best Gothic Romances have never been tame.
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Yes, totally, think of The Monk!
Part of the 'menace' was sexual menace.
Castles, fortresses, breaking down the walls, or being put into bondage, all obvious metaphors.
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